Series Foreword                                    ix

          Stephen Mitchell

          Gregory Nagy

Foreword                                           xi

          Mary Louise Lord

Acknowledgements                                   xiii

Introduction                                       1   (1)

      Songs by Women Performers in the Milman      2   (10)

      Parry Collection of Oral Literature

      Problems of Genre and Terminology            12  (19)

      Towards a Classification of Ballads from     31  (6)

      the Milman Parry Collection

      Questions of Microstructures and             37  (28)

      Macrostructures in the South Slavic

      Traditional Ballad

        Instances of Fixity and Near-Fixity        37  (4)

        Newly Composed Songs                       41  (3)

        Between Fixity and Novelty: the Spectrum   44  (1)

        Between Fixity and Novelty: Pronounced     45  (6)

        Textual Stability

        Between Fixity and Novelty: Relative       51  (4)

        Textual Stability

        The Theme, the Pattern, and the Plot       55  (5)

        In Pursuit of a Theme                      60  (3)

        Formula and Dialectal Influences           63  (2)

      The Role of Mythology                        65  (7)

      Formulaic Language in Translation            72  (7)

  Part I Background

  Basic Biographical Information                   79  (2)

  Conversations                                    81  (16)

      Hasnija Hrustanovic's biography and          81  (2)

      family background as told by her son

      Ibrahim Hrustanovic

      Emina Sakovic's biography and family         83  (1)

      background as told by her son Hamdija

      Sakovic

      Conversation with Dula Dizdarevic            84  (6)

        Part I                                     84  (3)

        Part II                                    87  (3)

      Interview with the collectors Hamdija        90  (7)

      Sakovic and Ibrahim Hrustanovic

  Part II Songs

  Songs                                            97  (158)

    Text 12220 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written     97  (22)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

      Text 2887 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written    99  (3)

      down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

      Text 2889 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written    102 (2)

      down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

      Text 1032 by Emina Sakovic, written down     104 (2)

      by Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 1992 by Emina Sakovic, written down     106 (2)

      by Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 2331 by Dula Dizdarevic, written        108 (3)

      down by Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 2674 by Zulka Tanovic, written down     111 (3)

      by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

      Text 2903 by Zehra Sakovic, written down     114 (5)

      by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 1035 by Emina Sakovic, written down by    119 (2)

    Hamdija Sakovic

    Text 2274 by Emina Sakovic, written down by    121 (14)

    Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 2828 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written    123 (1)

      down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

      Text 2224 by Kana Tanovic, written down      124 (6)

      by Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 2344 by Delva Sakovic, written down     130 (2)

      by Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 2544 by Haska Dilic, written down by    132 (3)

      Hamdija Sakovic

    Text 3073 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      135 (3)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 2641 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      138 (7)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

      Text 2192 by Kana Tanovic, written down      140 (2)

      by Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 2251 by Dula Dizdarevic, written        142 (3)

      down by Hamdija Sakovic

    Text 2036 by Emina Sakovic, written down by    145 (9)

    Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 2839 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written    150 (4)

      down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 2615 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      154 (2)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 2451 by Emina Sakovic, written down by    156 (2)

    Hamdija Sakovic

    Text 2872 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      158 (2)

    by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 2858 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      160 (4)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

      Text 2407 by Hata Ovcina, written down by    161 (3)

      Hamdija Sakovic

    Text 2846 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      164 (2)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 11686 by Dula Dizdarevic, written down    166 (5)

    by Halid Dizdarevic

    Text 2611 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      171 (3)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 12207 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written     174 (1)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 2129 by Emina Sakovic, written down by    175 (9)

    Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 11747 by Dula Dizdarevic, written       181 (3)

      down by Halid Dizdarevic

    Text 3047 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      184 (2)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 3074 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      186 (2)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 11754 by Dula Dizdarevic, written down    188 (4)

    by Halid Dizdarevic

      Text 11724 by Dula Dizdarevic, written       188 (1)

      down by Halid Dizdarevic

      Text 1318 by Dula Dizdarevic, written        189 (1)

      down by Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 1036 by Emina Sakovic, written down     190 (1)

      by Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 6501a by Raba Zvizdic, phonograph       190 (2)

      records 3596-97

    Text 971 by Emina Sakovic, written down by     192 (6)

    Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 12227 by Hasnija Hrustanovic,           194 (2)

      written down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

      Text 7086 by Dula Dizdarevic, written        196 (2)

      down by Halid Dizdarevic

    Text 10080 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written     198 (2)

    down by Delva Hrustanovic

    Text 10062 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written     200 (2)

    down by Delva Hrustanovic

    Text 2586 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      202 (2)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 2314 by Dula Dizdarevic, written down     204 (3)

    by Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 2450 by Dula Dizdarevic, written        205 (2)

      down by Hamdija Sakovic

    Text 2771 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      207 (3)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 2854 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      210 (6)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

      Text 11725 by Dula Dizdarevic, written       212 (2)

      down by Halid Dizdarevic

      Text 6450 by Hajrija Sakovic, phonograph     214 (2)

      records 3489-3493

    Text 2692 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      216 (2)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 2702 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      218 (1)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 2740 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      219 (1)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 1990 by Emina Sakovic, written down by    220 (2)

    Hamdija Sakovic

    Text 2897 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      222 (3)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 2334 by Emina Sakovic, written down by    225 (2)

    Hamdija Sakovic

    Text 2460 by Emina Sakovic, written down by    227 (4)

    Hamdija Sakovic

    Text 1070 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      231 (6)

    down by Camila Sakovic

      Text 2343 by Delva Sakovic, written down     232 (3)

      by Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 2233 by Najla Sakovic, written down     235 (2)

      by Hamdija Sakovic

    Text 2127 by Emina Sakovic, written down by    237 (3)

    Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 2122 by Emina Sakovic, written down     238 (1)

      by Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 2169 by Mena Tanovic, written down      238 (2)

      by Hamdija Sakovic

    Text 2727 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      240 (1)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 2315 by Emina Sakovic, written down by    241 (3)

    Hamdija Sakovic

      Text 2618 by Dula Dizdarevic, written        242 (2)

      down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 3037 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      244 (3)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 2772 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      247 (2)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

    Text 2291 by Dula Dizdarevic, written down     249 (2)

    by Hamdija Sakovic

    Text 2857 by Hasnija Hrustanovic, written      251 (4)

    down by Ibrahim Hrustanovic

Glossary                                           255 (2)

Selected Bibliography                              257 (10)

Index                                              267

Zlatom veze, a biserje niže

Embroidered with Gold, Strung with Pearls : The Traditional Ballads of Bosnian Women. Aida Vidan. Copyright 2003 The Milman Parry Collection of Oral Literature.

Knjiga je dobila Heldt Translation nagradu Društva za žene u slavističkim studijama, ogranka American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies (AAASS).

(usmenoknjiževna preoblika engleskog promotivnog teksta:)

Južnoslavenske narodne balade svojom su ljepotom i izrazom intrigirale mnoge, od Goethea do Milmana Parryja i Alberta Lorda. Sada se one predstavljaju anglofonim čitaocima u dvojezičnom izdanju s izborom materijala iz zbirke Milman Parry (pretraživa baza podataka u pripremi! nf) na Harvard University. Svih četrdeset usmenoknjiževnih tekstova, od kojih se mnogi ovdje javljaju u različitim inačicama, izvele su Bosanke, a prikupljene su u području Gackog (BiH), tijekom tridesetih. U opsežnom uvodu, Vidan naznačava potrebu da se teorije Parryja i Lorda dopune širim etnološkim, kulturološkim i povijesnim podacima, kako bismo razumjeli: kakva je postojanost pjesme? Kako se ona širi i prenosi? Kako se povezuje s mitologijom?
Zadnjih desetljeća postoji neuravnoteženost u proučavanju južnoslavenske narodne poezije, neuravnoteženost u korist epskih pjesama; na nju ova knjiga upozorava, pokazujući, istovremeno, kako svaki pjesnički žanr zadržava vlastite stilske posebnosti, premda se oba sastoje od istih temeljnih elemenata. Osim poredbene analize građe iz Parryjeve zbirke, Vidan navodi brojne objavljene i neobjavljene primjere hrvatskog i srpskog (valjda i bosanskog, op. prepj.) usmenog pjesništva.

Knjigu nemaju: NSK Zagreb, knjižnice Filozofskog fakulteta u Zagrebu. Na internetu nisam našao nikakav prikaz na južnoslavenskim jezicima (nažalost, ni bilo kakav mukte čitljiv; ne daju ni Oral Tradition, ni Slavic Review; let's write one for ourselves!)

Snimke iz Parryjeve zbirke muzički je transkribirao nitko drugi do li Bela Bartok; piše o tome 1942 (dok je Barac, recimo, bio u KZSTG).

http://filologanoga.blogspot.com/2005_02_01_filologanoga_archive.html

Krajem marta l935. godine Parry je u jednom svom izvještaju opisao sam postupak razgovora i postavljanja pitanja pjevačima: “Moje sve veće iskustvo i poznavanje ljudi, guslara i pjesama, naučili su me metodima rada pomoću kojih, u to sam uvjeren, mogu da ostvarim sabiranje najboljeg materijala koji je pristupačan u oblasti južnoslavenskih pjesama. Naročito mi je koristilo moje iskustvo u sastavljanju niza pitanja koja postavljam guslarima pred mikrofonom o njihovoj vještini, njihovom životu, o njihovoj društvenoj sredini, i ja vjerujem da ću donijeti natrag u Ameriku zbirku rukopisa i ploča koja je jedinstvena u svijetu za pročavanje funkcionisanja i života cijele jedne usmene narativne poezije. Snimljeni ko-mentar Avde Međedovića o pjesmi Ženidba Smailagić Mehe, koju je on ispjevao u l2.000 stihova, svakako je jedinstven u zbirkama narodnih epskih pjesama. Rezultati mojih zapažanja na terenu kao i primjena tih rezultata na ispitivanje ostalih epskih poezija iznose se u posebnoj knjizi The Singer of Tales, koja će uskoro biti objavljena u izdanju Harvard University Press-a u seriji “Harvard Studies on Comparative Literature”. 

U uvodu knjige objavljene 1953. citirane su riječi M. Parryja pa se kaže: “ ... Ova zbirka tekstova sačuvanih usmenih predanjem nije sakupljena sa namjerom da dobijemo jednu novu knjigu uz već postojeće obimne zbirke ove poezije, već radi dobijanja podataka na osnovu kojih bi se mogli izvući opći zaključci koji se mogu primijeniti na cjelokupno usmeno pjesništvo ...  

... Ne samo što možemo pratiti kako pjevač sastavlja riječi i rečenice i stihove, već također i čitave pasuse i teme, možemo vidjeti kako jedna cijela pjesma živi i prelazi od jednog čovjeka do drugog, s jedne generacije na drugu, prelazi preko polja i planina, pa i preko granica jednog jezika i, još više od toga,kako cijela usmena poezija živi i umire” 

 Nakon što je l933. godine dobio potporu od strane Američkog savjeta učenih društava, kome se prethodno obratio za podršku svome poduhvatu, Parry je otputovao u bivšu Jugoslaviju gdje je putem snimanja i zapisivanja skupljao usmenu građu u Novom Pazaru, Bijelom Polju, Kolašinu, Gacku, Stocu, Trebinju, Bihaću, Cazinu, Kulen Vakufu i nekim mjestima Dalmacije, Crne Gore i Makedonije. Tokom prvog putovanja u naše krajeve Parry je obišao oblasti koje je želio da obuhvati u svom radu da bi se tokom drugog putovanja, u kojem je uzeo učešća tada još student slavistike Albert Lord, posvetio sakupljanju usmene pjesničke građe. Poslije tragične Parryjeve smrti, neposredno po povratku iz tadašnje Jugoslavije (u decembru 1935. godine) njegov rad je nastavio Lord. Tako je 1937. godine ponovo došao da bi se izvršila transkripcija od oko 500 tekstova koje je Parry snimio na gramofonskim pločama. Tokom maja i juna 1950. godine i avgusta 1951. Lord je posjetio mjesta u kojima je Parry boravio prije rata i ovom prilikom sakupio otprilike 500 tekstova dodavši ih zbirci koja se danas čuva u posebnoj “Parryjevoj kolekciji” smještenoj u biblioteci Wiedner na Harvardskom univerzitetu. U poslu oko prikupljanja građe dvojici istraživača dragocjenu pomoć su pružili zapisivači i pomoćnici, prije rata Nikola Vujinović Parryju i poslije rata Miloš Velimirović Lordu.

 Dr Enes Kujundžić

Bošnjačka epika i homersko pitanje

Dokumentarna osnova

 http://www.razlika-differance.com/Razlika%202/RD2-Kujundzic.pdf

 Separate u potpunosti možete naći na :

http://www.almanah.cg.yu/Ostale/PDF/casopis/Almanah%2031-32.pdf http://www.almanah.cg.yu/Ostale/PDF/casopis/25-26.pdf

Hasnija Hrustanović’s biography and family background as told by her son Ibrahim Hrustanović

Interview conducted by Nikola Ivanov Vujnović in Gacko, 1935.

Hard cover notebook no. 11

Text 6314, phonograph records 2999-3002

Nikola: You wrote down songs by Hasnija Hrustanović?

Ibrahim: Yes, she is my mother. (...)

Nikola: How old is she?

Ibrahim: Well, she is about seventy. She is an old woman who, as perhaps no other woman from these regions, has

traveled through half of Europe and to Asia, from Constantinople to Trabzon. She is probably the only woman who has traveled through all of these lands alone, with no escort, dressed in a cloak and a veil.

Nikola: Why did she travel there?

Ibrahim: She went there because she has relatives there, her brother and others. She herself is from Kula Fazlagića,

here across the field. She is from the renowned family of Tanović. Her father was a famous khodja ,[1] Rašidaga Tanović. She also had a famous uncle, Mulaga Tanović, who visited the sultan several times.

And then her brother—I have to tell you this story—he used to live in Kula. And there he had a dispute with some of his neighbors, and he was very honorable. And he was attacked and insulted in front of some committee—a judge, a land surveyor, and some other people. He was insulted right there, and attacked. And he was a hunter, and then he sent his little son, who was seven or eight, and he told him to bring a gun from home to kill two pigeons. (...) And he came here, the kid brought him the gun, and he killed both [his neighbors]. He had four sons. Three were grown up, from eight to fifteen years of age, and one was three. It was Austro-Hungary here, and he took three sons of his and ran away across the border to Montenegro. A party was sent after him, and troops to seize him, but in vain. He luckily escaped earlier. He stayed with the Duke Nikola at Cetinje. The Duke received him very well, because [the fugitive’s] father, this Rašidaga Tanović, he was a khodja but also a merchant. He sold cattle all over Montenegro. When on one occasion he came to the renovated monastery of Piva, he entered and gave a gift of five hundred crowns. (...)

Hamdija: Such tolerance of other religions this khodja Rašidaga had! The khodja, a representative of Islam, said his

                prayers in a monastery! (...)

Ibrahim: And once, Duke Nikola visited that monastery and heard priests say a prayer for the good health of those who gave donations to the monastery. Then [they told] the Duke Nikola that one Muslim had given a large amount of five hundred crowns. And he did not forget it. When, by chance, this uncle of mine came to Cetinje, the Duke invited him when he heard about him. All kinds of orders and warrants of arrest were being issued by the Austro-Hungarian government in Sarajevo for him to be extradited as a murderer to the Austrian government. Duke Nikola invited him to his place. He asked him whose son he was and such. When he learned that he was a son of Rašidaga Tanović (...), he did not want to extradite him. And at the last moment, when Austro-Hungary was pressing to extradite him, he gave him passports and he escaped to Turkey. (...) He stayed and lived there. His father was wealthy and sent him a lot of money. He got hold of some military barracks there (...) near Smyrna. (...) Later his father and the rest of the family came and they all remained there. And then, my mother, in order to see her only brother, (...) she went to such trouble and took such a long journey despite her age. She was about sixty-seven or -eight then. (...)

She is, as I said, about seventy now. One cannot determine precisely how old these old women are. Before there was no priest, nor did the government or state keep evidence of when someone was born and such, but just approximately. Neither Turkey nor Austria initially. When they are telling their age, they say, “I remember such and such a battle, when such and such were killed.” And we can judge by that. Some say, “We remember when Smajilaga Čengić was killed,” some other when Osman pasha attacked Montenegro, or when Duke Nikola devastated Herzegovina and Gacko. And we know by that, by these historic years, when the event was, and we can approximately tell how old they are. (...)

[My mother] told me songs very well. This time she told me about three hundred songs. And earlier she had told me some. I have wondered where she learned all these songs. She said to me: “When I was a girl,” she said, “my father was wealthy, perhaps the wealthiest in this area. I,” she said,” never had to do anything, but I would invite other girls, neighbors, and they would come for a meal or drink with me. And what would we do? We would embroider, sing and be merry, entertain and court.” She said: “I did not think about misfortunes or how to earn money and such, as when one is in difficult circumstances. I was,” she said, “content. When I would hear,” she said, “a song from some old woman and such,” she said, “I wanted to sing it myself and to learn it. I myself, am surprised,” she said, “how I memorized all of that and remember it after so many years.”

Conversation with Đula Dizdarević

Interview conducted by Nikola Ivanov Vujnović in Gacko, 1935.

Hard cover notebooks nos. 6, 7, 8

Texts 6520 and 6523, phonograph records 3743-3757, 3828

Part I

Nikola: Tell me where you are from?

Đula: I am from Mulji, from the Pašić family, a daughter of the late Alaga Pašić.

Nikola: Whom did you marry?

Đula: I married Murataga Dizdarević’s son from Korita. (...)

Nikola: How old are you, Đula?

Đula: I am seventy-five.

Nikola: Were the Dizdarevićs beys or aghas?

Đula: By God, they were. My father-in-law, in front of his house you can see even now the foundations of the

sultan’s market place. And there was a treasury, and he was a treasurer, and sent loads of treasure to the sultan. (...) He was in charge of the military, my father-in-law. He supplied them with money, he would distribute the dues to the regulars. (...) If you want I can tell you about when the town burned. Do you want me to?

Nikola: I want to, just tell me for how long did you live there?

Đula: For thirty-five years I lived in Korita, and since we came here[1] it has been twenty-two. (...)

Nikola: Do you have any children, Đula?

Đula: I had twelve sons and only one daughter among twelve sons. Seven died, and five are living, God bless them.

Nikola: Are they all here?

Đula: Three are here with me, one is in America, and one is a driver somewhere in Dubrovnik, in Split.

Nikola: Yes, yes. You lived well in Korita?

Đula: Lived well? My father-in-law had a hundred serfs. Everybody knows that. (...) From Planik to Ravno my

father-in-law had land and property. And he never worked on the land, nor did his sons. (...) In nobody’s house could one find so much silver, ducats, and gold as in his in Korita. The whole village knows. See, what an outstanding man he was.

Nikola: And how was your life there?

Đula: I lived there later; after the Duke attacked and burned Korita they had to run without taking anything, and all

was lost. (...) No, I had not come to the town yet, but [my father-in-law] told me all about it, all that happened with his home. And how it was when the Duke attacked Korita, and pillaged and slaughtered my brother-in-law Džafer in Kameno Brdo.[2] My father-in-law’s son, you could not find such a man in the whole of Herzegovina.

Nikola: So they burned Korita before you got married?

Đula: Before, before, of course before. And then, when the Duke and Montenegro wanted to attack Korita, some serf

of my father-in-law’s came, one Vasilj Svorcan, he got on well with my father-in-law. A serf, he treated my father-in-law as his own father. Then he came and said to Murataga: “Murataga,” he said, “the Duke and Montenegro will attack in the evening. Run away. Tell Džafer to run away,” to that son who got killed, whom they slaughtered. “Tell him to run away in the evening and to take the serfs to Gacko.” But one woman heard this serf telling this to my father-in-law. And then that woman went to Potrobac by Kobilja Glava to one Serb’s house. That Serb asked her: “By God, why have you come?” “By God I have come to seek a horse from you.” “Why do you need a horse?” “I swear by God, Murataga’s Džafer wants to flee to Gacko tonight and to take serfs. Montenegro and the Duke will attack Korita.” Then this Serb gave this woman a horse, and he spread word across the border and told the Montenegrins. And the Serbs waited for [Džafer] by Kobilja Glava on the road he was to take. (...) Džafer went in front of the women, the women followed him and each was wearing a veil. (...) The Montenegrins ambushed him. A gun fired, by God, hit him right away, wounded him in his leg. He was wounded and the women saw it and they began lamenting and crying, women and children. Wounded, but he kept shooting. His leg was smashed, but he shot and killed three men. (...) Then a gun fired and wounded him, smashed his arm and he could no longer shoot. The Montenegrins attacked him to slaughter him (...) and he could not [fight] any more. (...) In the evening they came to the town, to the house and found my in-laws.

Nikola: And then?

Đula: And they said: “Murataginica, give us the money!” She said: “I have no money.” “Give the money or we’ll

slaughter you.” She said: “By God, I don’t have any money, it’s not here. Whatever money there was, my son took with him, and you killed my son. I don’t have any money, you can slaughter me.” And they wanted to slaughter my father-in-law right there. But one Vasilj Svorcan would not let them do it.[3] He begged them and did not allow it. And they let my father-in-law go. No serfs were left, all of them had gone to Gacko the day before. And then my father-in-law came to Cernica and buried his son, and from Cernica he went to Nevesinje. In Nevesinje they stayed for a while. They stayed there until the Germans ordered everyone to go home. And then the sultan helped my father-in-law and built Korita again. By God, he gave him a house and everything, and he had serfs and lived well later on. (...) When Korita was burned down and pillaged, our land ended up in serfs’ hands. And it remained theirs. (...)

Nikola: Do you remember when [the Duke] crossed over here?

Đula: I remember, as if it happened this morning. When the Duke crossed over, how could I not remember? (...) And

we, we escaped from Mulji.[4] And we lived in Drina for three years. My family. And yes, by God, they burned down the houses, slaughtered and imprisoned whoever they wanted.

Nikola: Since [your father-in-law] had the soldiers, did he ever cross over to Montenegro?

Đula: Yes, by God, he would go to visit Duke Petrović and this one would meet him as if he were a vizier* or a sultan.

Nikola: And the Duke would not do anything to him when he would come?

Đula: Nothing, no! He would not, until the unrests began, until guns started shooting. By God, nothing.

Nikola: And then, when guns started shooting, everybody watched his own interest?

Đula: Yes, everybody watched his own interest. Then he[5] wanted to take over the sultan’s market-place, and to burn

and pillage. After three years the Germans ordered everyone to go home. (...) The Germans treated us well. Helped everyone. By God, they built houses, provided supplies. That’s what they did. Helped everyone. Built the whole town. Helped my father-in-law, built their houses, gave him land. And by God, they lived well till this last war.

Nikola: Were you in Korita when the war started in 1914?

Đula: This one recently, right?

Nikola: Yes.

Đula: By God, I was there, didn’t I tell you?

Nikola: Yes, yes.

Đula: (...) The Montenegrins attacked around the time of the afternoon prayer, salvoes were hitting near our houses,

                and we escaped. We did not even lock the house or close the door or take anything with us.[6]

Nikola: How come the Germans did not try to stop you from leaving?

Đula: They did not try to stop us. They said: “Run away!” What could they do? Montenegro attacked.

Part II

 

Nikola: You mentioned that you father was a guslar. (...) Do you know some songs that he sang?

Đula: I know one.

Nikola: Which one, Đula?

Đula: On Hasko Čelebić. (...) My father sang this song God knows how many years ago, and I have not forgotten one

                verse.[7] (...)

Nikola: Đula, tell me how you have learned your songs. (...)

Đula: By God, I would hear it from someone, then I would come home, sit down, and I wouldn’t do anything, no

                heavy work at all. The whole day I would just compose the song and sing, and therefore I remember them.

Nikola: Did you sing a lot when you were young?

Đula: By God, there was no kolo,[8] or a song heard, there was no wedding or circumcision to which I would not be

invited to sing. I was so praised. (...) I could sing well; now, by God, I am old and have no voice. I can’t sing as when I was young.

Nikola: And what did you do when you were young?

Đula: By God, I embroidered, wove, gathered a dowry, and I would always sing at the tambour and the loom. That is

                what I did.

Nikola: Did you make kilims*?

Đula: By God, no, not kilims. And my father, Alaga Pašić from Mulji, was wealthy and good to me. After the Pašićs

                I was with the Dizdarevićs, it was good for me here and there.

Nikola: (...) By God, you lived well.

Đula: It was God’s will. And now God ordered this, Nikola, war and unrests and you name it. (...)

Nikola: How many songs did you know Đula?

Đula: God only knows how many I’ve known. How many have I sung to be written in the notebooks?[9] And how

                many have I sung here?[10] It is not one ninth of what I’ve known. I go home and I remember more.

Nikola: So you know some more?

Đula: Yes, and while I am here I just somehow can’t sing, but you see, I know them.

Nikola: Listen, Đula. Tell me now about how girls lived before, in the old times, when you were a girl. For example,

how they behaved towards older people, did they obey their mother and father?

Đula: Did they obey? By God, better than today. Before, a girl who had a mother and a father would not step over to

her neighbor’s house if you gave her the whole world, without asking her father and her mother. She would not step out to see a neighbor, an aunt. That’s how girls were. I was like that as well. And if there was a gathering, or a wedding or a circumcision, a gathering, the girl would not go without her mother.

Nikola: Nowhere?

Đula: Nowhere without her mother and without the cover.

Nikola: What about the father?

Đula: One would not go with her father. Such was not the custom then for the father to go with women, now it is. (...)

Nikola: Tell me, Đula, from where are your songs? Are they mostly from Mulji or from Korita?

Đula: By God, they are mostly from Mulji.[11] (...)

Nikola: Did your father know a lot of songs? (...)

Đula: Yes, by God, Salihaga[12] here knows, he was a first rate guslar. First rate.

Nikola: Do you remember any other song of his?

Đula. By God, no. (...)

Nikola: You remember only one song?

Đula: Only that one, by God, nothing else. He sang it many times, and I learned it that way. (...)

Nikola: Why do you think it is nicer to sing with a baking pan?[13] Why is it better than without it?

Đula: I like it better, my voice sounds better with a baking pan and I prefer it over singing with somebody. (...)

Nikola: Is that an old custom?

Đula: It is an old custom to sing with the pan, it has always been that way. When I was a girl it was that way.

Nikola: What kind of a baking pan does one use for singing?

Đula: What baking pan for singing? What do you mean what kind? It is, naturally, a baking pan that one revolves

while singing.
Nikola: But is there some special kind of a baking pan for this purpose?

Đula: No, by God, any pan will do, whichever one you want. It is no different from any other pan. (...)

Nikola: Are the songs the same in Mulji as in Gacko?

Đula: By God, they are the same as here.

Nikola: What about Korita? (...)

Đula: By God, the same. [A woman] who came from the town knows those songs and sings them. Just as I came

from Havtovci, from Mulji to Korita.

Nikola: Say, what about Kula Fazlagića? (...)

Đula: By God, in Kula, they are like here and there are also peasant songs.

Nikola: Peasant songs?

Đula: They have their own songs and they have learned ours as well. How have they learned them? We have a

celebration on Aliđun day here in the field by Jasike in the summer.[14] All the girls from the villages usually come. The whole world is there. (...) They come from Stolac, from Mostar, your people from Stolac come, don’t you know? (...) People dance, sing, and at the end there is a race. (...) A horse race, and then men race. And there is an award, who comes first gets the award. (...)

Nikola: Is this a celebration for the Muslims?

Đula: This is a celebration for the Muslims, but the Orthodox people can come as well. They come just like us. (...)

Nikola: Have you ever composed a song by yourself?

Đula: Me?

Nikola: Yes. (...)

Đula: By God, I have. (...)

Nikola: Have you ever been in the company of some girls, for example five or six of them, and you said: “Let’s make

a song, let’s put it together and sing.”

Đula: By God, I have. Of course, I have.

Nikola: And who was the best at it?

Đula: By God, it seems to me it was me, but I do not know. (...)[15]

Nikola: And about what did you sing?

Đula: About all kinds of things, but we sang mostly about young men. (...)

Nikola: Why did older people like so much singing with a pan?

Đula: I would not know why. Wherever I would go, to a gathering, and a kolo, and to sing, old men and women

                would always say: “Bring the pan! Here is who knows best how to sing with a pan.”

Almasa Zvizdić:[16] Here is why they liked it: why did older people like the gusle? They liked the gusle when they

got together at a gathering, not like now when they go to the market place, to bars and coffee places to sit

around there. [Before] people used to visit one another, neighbors would come for a gathering. Tonight at my place, tomorrow at yours, they would have a gathering and be merry. For that reason they created the pan just as they did the gusle, because that is a kind of beauty and entertainment.

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